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Extracting all glyphs from a font

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Extracting all glyphs from a font

RKVS Raman
Hi,

While working with ttf2svg  i noted that the utility extract only
those glyph paths which have a character referered by it.

For languages like those in Indic Scripts (Hindi, Tamil) etc, the font
file contains lot of more glyphs which do not directly refer to any
character but are ligatures.

How could we extract them using Batik?

Thanks.

Best Regards
-Raman

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RKVS Raman
http://sites.google.com/site/rkvsraman
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Re: Extracting all glyphs from a font

thomas.deweese
Hi Raman,

RKVS Raman <[hidden email]> wrote on 03/05/2010 05:19:30 AM:

> While working with ttf2svg  i noted that the utility extract only
> those glyph paths which have a character referered by it.

   Correct.

> For languages like those in Indic Scripts (Hindi, Tamil) etc, the font
> file contains lot of more glyphs which do not directly refer to any
> character but are ligatures.
>
> How could we extract them using Batik?

   I did some looking at how Indic scripts are implemented using TrueType
and the complexity goes way beyond simple ligatures.  I don't think
SVG fonts supports the needed complexity (multiple layers of many to
many GSUB tables).

   Anyway, I think you will have to write some custom code to extract
your glyphs.  If it looks like it's generally applicable it would
be nice if you could contribute back but it's not immediately obvious
that it would be generalizable.

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Re: Extracting all glyphs from a font

RKVS Raman
>> For languages like those in Indic Scripts (Hindi, Tamil) etc, the font
>> file contains lot of more glyphs which do not directly refer to any
>> character but are ligatures.
>>
>> How could we extract them using Batik?
>
>    I did some looking at how Indic scripts are implemented using TrueType
> and the complexity goes way beyond simple ligatures.  I don't think
> SVG fonts supports the needed complexity (multiple layers of many to
> many GSUB tables).
>
>    Anyway, I think you will have to write some custom code to extract
> your glyphs.  If it looks like it's generally applicable it would
> be nice if you could contribute back but it's not immediately obvious
> that it would be generalizable.
>
>

Thanks for the response. Before I started to code that extra bit, I
wanted to be sure that it wasn't possible with existing Batik and that
I was not missing on some important switch which could do that.

Best Regards
-Raman

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Re: Extracting all glyphs from a font

Chris Lilley
In reply to this post by thomas.deweese
On Thursday, March 11, 2010, 12:12:09 PM, thomas wrote:
 
tdkc>    I did some looking at how Indic scripts are implemented using TrueType
tdkc> and the complexity goes way beyond simple ligatures.  I don't think
tdkc> SVG fonts supports the needed complexity (multiple layers of many to
tdkc> many GSUB tables).

Correct, SVG fonts do not support the complexity needed for most Indic languages, particularly those written in Devanagari. It would also be tricky to add this, given that OpenType already covers many (not all) languages, many SVG implementations can handle local OpenType fonts, and WOFF gives the possibility of remotely downloaded OpenType fonts.

tdkc>    Anyway, I think you will have to write some custom code to extract
tdkc> your glyphs.  If it looks like it's generally applicable it would
tdkc> be nice if you could contribute back but it's not immediately obvious
tdkc> that it would be generalizable.


--
 Chris Lilley                    mailto:[hidden email]
 Technical Director, Interaction Domain
 W3C Graphics Activity Lead
 Co-Chair, W3C Hypertext CG


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Re: Extracting all glyphs from a font

RKVS Raman
I understand the complexity of CTL in Indic scripts. But unless we are
able to build that kind of functionality into SVG fonts, various
animations possible because of path manipulations become impossible.
Just the support of rendering Opentype fonts on canvas is not enough.

Best Regards
-Raman

-----------------------------------------------
RKVS Raman
http://sites.google.com/site/rkvsraman
------------------------------------------------



On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 6:48 PM, Chris Lilley <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thursday, March 11, 2010, 12:12:09 PM, thomas wrote:
>
> tdkc>    I did some looking at how Indic scripts are implemented using TrueType
> tdkc> and the complexity goes way beyond simple ligatures.  I don't think
> tdkc> SVG fonts supports the needed complexity (multiple layers of many to
> tdkc> many GSUB tables).
>
> Correct, SVG fonts do not support the complexity needed for most Indic languages, particularly those written in Devanagari. It would also be tricky to add this, given that OpenType already covers many (not all) languages, many SVG implementations can handle local OpenType fonts, and WOFF gives the possibility of remotely downloaded OpenType fonts.
>
> tdkc>    Anyway, I think you will have to write some custom code to extract
> tdkc> your glyphs.  If it looks like it's generally applicable it would
> tdkc> be nice if you could contribute back but it's not immediately obvious
> tdkc> that it would be generalizable.
>
>
> --
>  Chris Lilley                    mailto:[hidden email]
>  Technical Director, Interaction Domain
>  W3C Graphics Activity Lead
>  Co-Chair, W3C Hypertext CG
>
>
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> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>

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Re: Extracting all glyphs from a font

Chris Lilley
On Friday, March 12, 2010, 6:48:03 AM, RKVS wrote:

RR> I understand the complexity of CTL in Indic scripts. But unless we are
RR> able to build that kind of functionality into SVG fonts, various
RR> animations possible because of path manipulations become impossible.
RR> Just the support of rendering Opentype fonts on canvas is not enough.

Could you explain a bit more what you are trying do do in terms of animations and how OpenType does not give the functionality you need?

Do you mean you are animating or morphing the outlines of the glyphs themselves?


--
 Chris Lilley                    mailto:[hidden email]
 Technical Director, Interaction Domain
 W3C Graphics Activity Lead
 Co-Chair, W3C Hypertext CG


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Re: Extracting all glyphs from a font

RKVS Raman
Yes, I am trying to morph the outlines  so that entire text becomes fluid.


Best Regards
-Raman




On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 7:29 PM, Chris Lilley <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Friday, March 12, 2010, 6:48:03 AM, RKVS wrote:
>
> RR> I understand the complexity of CTL in Indic scripts. But unless we are
> RR> able to build that kind of functionality into SVG fonts, various
> RR> animations possible because of path manipulations become impossible.
> RR> Just the support of rendering Opentype fonts on canvas is not enough.
>
> Could you explain a bit more what you are trying do do in terms of animations and how OpenType does not give the functionality you need?
>
> Do you mean you are animating or morphing the outlines of the glyphs themselves?
>
>
> --
>  Chris Lilley                    mailto:[hidden email]
>  Technical Director, Interaction Domain
>  W3C Graphics Activity Lead
>  Co-Chair, W3C Hypertext CG
>
>

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